Basketball: Joe Raso out at Mac after 18 seasons

No coach ever really resigns. Joe Raso, who built a fine program at McMaster, is the latest to depart rather abruptly.
"CHML News has learned that Joe Raso and the university parted ways today.

"Raso told CHML News, the school wants to go in another direction.

"Raso will return to his full-time job at St. Mary's Secondary in Hamilton."
Another direction can mean many, many things. There is no way, given that Raso just announced his recruiting class and has his son, guard Victor Raso, just going into his second season, that this could have been a coach's decision.

One theory (and it's just a theory) could be that Mac athletic director Jeff Giles wants to have a full-time men's hoops coach. Raso has a good job at St. Mary's Secondary School (and the pension that comes with it), so perhaps he did not fit into any such restructuring.

You could reasonably ask if that's an instance of being rigid in one's thinking. The arrangement with Raso certainly worked well.

A counter-point, given that Mac has gone a few seasons without a tournament trip. Giles might be thinking that the Marauders are at or near a point of diminishing returns with not having a full-time coach. Basketball is getting more competitive each season. A full-time coach might be the logical next step for a school which should be in the hunt for an OUA West title most seasons in light of its size, facilities and the strong basketball culture in Southern Ontario.

Raso is Hamilton and through and through, so one would wonder what it would take for him to coach another CIS program. He is set with a job at St. Mary's, where he built a powerhouse high school program from scratch before he was hired at McMaster in 1992. By any standard, he was a success at McMaster over an 18-year span, although a national title proved elusive, like it did for Dave DeAveiro at Ottawa. (Another common thread is each had a high-profile recruit who did not work out: Ryan Christie this season at Mac and former Syracuse guard Josh Wright in 2008-09 at Ottawa.)

Above all else, Raso rated better than an unceremonious exit in late April.

It will be hard to imagine the Marauders without Raso coaching. This is a stunner, for sure.

Between Joe Raso, Ottawa-turned-McGill coach DeAveiro and retiring York coach Bob Bain, more than six decades' experience has been taken out of OUA men's basketball.

Raso out as Mac basketball coach (Ted Michaels, AM 900 CHML)
Mac shows Raso the door; basketball coach's contract not renewed (Drew Edwards, Hamilton Spectator)
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  1. WOW! Theresa Burns must be wondering if she is next. Can't imagine McMaster Basketball without Joe. Key point in article... a success by any standard.

    Who should be next coach?

  2. Too vocal with the ref's all the time, too demanding after the fact, too demonstrative in his frustration, too frustrated, did everyone in the gym need to know how pissed you were with that missed defensive assignment every defensive stand? Too much a part of the game, coaches coach players play, coaches do not play are not in the game no matter what you think or know, good luck hopefully you'll not be out of it too long.

  3. Joe never played at Mac but was loyal to that program and that school for over 30 years. Whether or not Jeff Giles understands the extent that loyalty pervades is uncertain. Let's see how 18 years of players react. There is one obvious candidate out there who appears very comfortable where he is. Other than that, who else is Mac going to get who can year in and year out maintain Mac as a contender. Very sad to see Joe go. Hope he was treated in a manner consistent with his loyalty to that place.

  4. As a longtime Mac supporter I feel as if I've been betrayed. With the recruiting class that *was* going to come in, I felt we were on the verge of a special opportunity, and that there is only one direction we can go now, and that is not encouraging. While I didn't always like Joe's antics, nobody can argue that it wasn't he who built the program.

  5. Ancient Hamilton proverb "Don't compromise loyalty"

  6. I'd be very, very surprised if Chris Oliver left Windsor. With him at the helm, the Lancers are the class of the west...and I think he knows it. Windsor has a much better basketball "infrastructure" than anywhere else in the West.
    Nothing is impossible...but I see Chris staying in a very good situation at Windsor.

  7. Or is he talking about Ken Murray who lives in the area now as the spectator always seems to mention. Probably a little too close to reitrement however.

  8. Anon 8:58...
    Yeah Joe bitches at the refs too much, he bitches at his players too much,
    he flaps his arms too much...yada yada yada.
    You know something else about Joe?
    12 trips to nationals with 4 silver medals and 4 Wilson Cups.
    Now name any OTHER Mac coach who comes close to that?
    So the school wants to head in another direction, eh?
    Oh, they'll be headin' in a different direction all right...
    directly south!

  9. Pretty shabby way to treat someone who gave that program his heart and soul. There are lots of coaches who would swap their record with Raso's in a second.

  10. It's about time they let him go!
    Kudos to Jeff Giles
    So what he went to Nationals 12 times, yada yada, with the talent he's had over the years, it's a given he should be there and should have won at least 3 times. Any coach could take that current team and end up in the top 3. This year's team was a disappointment and were favoured to finish first, yes Keenan was hurt but more importantly, the Christie caper cost him and the schools reputation.
    Cleaning house is the best direction for the program, the bully was finally bullied himself.Good riddens!
    ps. Many people in the community will now return to watch the Marauders play basketball and not the freak show on the side lines.

  11. Hey bud...
    You seem to forget it was Joe who built that program in the first place.
    Where was Mac basketball BEFORE Joe?
    12 of the team's 13 national appearances were with Joe and 4 of
    their six Wilsons were with him.
    So don't give me that bullcrap that anybody could have done what Joe
    because nobody before him was even close.

  12. Bully ? Freak Show ?
    How would you describe Dave Smart ?
    Joe Raso and Dave Smart teach and coach the game with the passion and enthusiasm of an evangelist and they get their players to play the same way. This is what has earned them the best coaching records in the OUA West and OUA East respectively over their careers and this is what sets them apart from other coaches.
    Having observed OUA BASKETBALL FOR 33 years,
    few if any other coaches have consistently combined a passion for the game along with a love for their players as I have seen Joe Raso demonstrate.

  13. Joe Raso IS mac basketball!!

  14. Will the new coach bring back the lost players who are still at the school... Aminu Bello, Mouctar Diaby, Ryan Christie???

  15. Joe is a good man but could never win the big one and that is how all programs are measured. He is too theatrical with the referees and that may be part of not winning the big one as he lost focus on coaching his team while he was chasing a referee down the court on a call that often had nothing to do with the game.

  16. No real surprise. Giles wants to change the image of Mac basketball. Raso is lucky he wasn't thrown out of more games. I expect Giles will bring in a new coach that he has hand picked.

    Also, who cares if he's won 3 OUA's, 12 trips to the dance and 4 silver medals.

    Last I checked you don't win the silver but lose the gold. He wasn't hired to come home with silver medals.

    It says here that Ptaszek is next.

  17. I'm a former MAC player who played for Barry Phillips, the man who took MAC to the CIAU SemiFinals against Brandon (Tulane)in 1987. Barry gave Joe is first Assistant coaching gig and Joe has made the most of it and has represented Hamilton with honour. What a shame to have some clown come in and ruin one of the few bright spots still left in Hamilton sports. And for thos who speak of refs - Why do you even mention refs? They are mercenaries who do a poor job in my opinion. Good luck Joe!

  18. Joe was a good coach, but sometimes change is good even if it doesn't seem like it at first. Chris Oliver has Hamilton ties and is one of the best coaches in the country. Windsor better make sure they lock him up!!

  19. Who cares about this thread, there is a new volleyball post out there we all should be reading.

  20. Jeff Giles (Pauli Walnuts) took out the Godfather of basketball like a mob hit.....Ptaszek and burns should have been fired first..... Rumours are flying of the new replacements... A few names are Dave Smart, Chris Oliver(Raso Guy unlikely)and Ken Murray... should be an interesting few months....

  21. Ken Murray would be a great treplacement.. 2 National Championships at Brock... A nack for developing great talent... Lives in Dundas...

  22. Anon @ 8:32

    The Ottawa Citizen reported recently that Dave Smart's salary has risen to $109,000 at Carleton . Would Mac likely better that? Just curious.

  23. Murray lives in Dundas?

  24. I can't understand why people are suggesting Theresa Burns be canned as well. Firstly, that's entirely speculation, and secondly, she has a track record and tenure nearly as good as Raso's was.

    I would also have to think Mac's stronghold on Hamilton recruits will be at least temporarily hurt by this. Raso was and is a pillar of the community.

    Also, if chastising his own players was a reason, there would be no point suggesting Murray would be his replacement. He's just as bad or worse and putting his own out to dry.

  25. GILES blew this big time Joe is a hamilton institution how is the new coach going to recruit in this area Joe has his ex players coaching everywhere and Joe breeds loyalty these ex players will boycott Mac and the programme . Joe put Mac on the map and this is the respect he gets after 18 years Also who says he is not a full time coach have you ever seen anyone at more high school tournaments . This is a slap in the face to all the Hamilton basketball community BOYCOTT MAC BOYCOTT LABATTS

  26. I love these geniuses who say Joe Raso could never win the "big one".
    Of course, before that bum ever coached a game, Mac was winning
    national championships all the time, right?
    Uh, not quite.
    Let's crunch the numbers, shall we:
    With Joe: 12 national appearances, 4 Wilsons, 4 silvers
    in 18 years coaching.
    Before Joe: 2 nationals, 2 Wilsons, one silver medal in 30 seasons of CIAU ball.
    Yeah, it's pretty obvious Joe Raso ruined this program....right.

  27. Dave Smart's Salary as recently posted in 2009 was over $130,000, there is no way that Mac is offering that type of money to anyone...Why would Dave leave Ottawa?. He is from the area, has just started a family and can get ANYONE into Carleton, people he is not coming...Ollie has a great gig at Windsor right now, lower academic standards, the pull of the US being close, administration that is spending to improve athletics, I would be surprised if he left, but after the news yesterday I guess anything is possible. The guy Mac should go after is not Ken Murray (too close to retirement in my opinion) but Greg Francis, he has ties to the Hamilton area from NEDA, is a somewhat local guy and will be able to recruit Hamilton and Toronto....just my opinion.

    Any other ideas of young coaches out there that would be up to the job...

  28. What about Brad Rootes? He is young, but has been successful recruiting at Brock - bringing in the last two CIS Rookies of the Year.

  29. Salary may be part of the equation if Joe's contract was up for renewal. From Dave Deaveiro's comments upon leaving Ottawa, it seems to have been an issue with him, and rumours suggest that McGill has offered him considerably more than he was making at UofO. I just checked the 2010 Ontario "Sunshine" list for salaries over 100K. It shows Dave Smart making $133,093, Bob Bain $130,270, and Mike Katz $110,947. Neither Joe Raso or Dave Deaveiro are shown in the list, so one would assume that means their salaries last year were less than $100K.

  30. Not sure if this is posted...2 good candidates...
    Chris Oliver (and Ollie's wife is from Hamilton)
    Greg Fancis

  31. Dave Smart is pulling down 130K per year?
    LOL, with that cake you'd think he would buy himself a decent suit!
    I love how the former player under Barry Phillips referred to Brandon as "Tulane".
    Yeah, that was about the size of it..."Jerry's Kids"...
    that program was so clean it squeaked...not.
    I can't believe Raso accomplished all that he did at Mac
    essentially as a part timer.
    I don't know what Mac was paying him but they got bang for the buck, I think.

  32. What about long time assistant at Carleton, Rob Smart - Brad Rootes at Brock - Matt Skinn, currently coaching St FX Women - Darrell Glenn at Humber?
    Chris Oliver and Dave Smart have pretty sweet deals where they are - they aren't going anywhere. Would Greg Francis really leave Alberta after only one year?

  33. Kinda doubt Brad Rootes would be up for this job.
    From what I have been told, Rootes is the heir apparent when Murray finally calls it a day.
    Maybe, it all depends on his situation at Windsor.
    And if the Mrs. is from Hamilton, that might be influential.
    Whoever takes over has a tough act to follow, especially
    now that the job is officially a full time gig.

  34. How about Derek Howard? He is from Hamilton, played at MAC (one of Mac's best ever players)and has been coaching down in the USA at the NCAA,high school and professional levels (USBL).

  35. Greg Francis is from the general area.
    Canada Basketball is based in the general area.
    NEDA was based in Hamilton (perhaps partially at Mac?)

    Would U of A let him out of his contract?
    Would Mac pay enough?

  36. Joe Raso is not only as fine a coach as this country has ever had at any level, he is also as fine a man as I have ever known.Whomever this athletic director is, his actions, timing and undertsanding are nothing short of criminal.What he has done is unforgiveable.It was wrong.

  37. Hey Tom...
    Everyone knows who Jeff Giles least now they do.
    He was the former CFL commish who "saved the league".
    Now he's at Mac, ready to "save" McMaster athletics.
    He's gotten rid of that "loser" Joe and his crummy 4 Wilsons and 4 national silver medals.
    No silver around here, please.
    Only gold will do.
    In ten years, Mac will break Victoria's record of 8 championships.
    Well, Super Jeff will wave a big wad of cash in front of...I don't know, SOMEBODY.
    He'll hire that person, and then you watch as the Wilsons and CIS titles
    will pile up...just you wait, it'll happen for sure.
    We'll forget that Joe Raso was ever here...won't we, "disgruntled"?

  38. Mac shows Raso the door - Sports - Mac shows Raso the door
    Basketball coach's contract not renewed

    Drew Edwards
    McMaster University mens' basketball coach Joe Raso is out after 18 years with the program.

    Mac's director athletics and recreation Jeff Giles said today that Raso's contract, which was renewed on a yearly basis, was not extended for the 2010-11 season.

    "We wanted to take the program in a different direction and we felt that we needed a new coach to ensure that we got there," Giles said. "It's simply a basketball decision and a desire to take our program to the next level."

    This season, McMaster finished third in the eight-team OUA West with a 14-8 record before being upset in the quarter-final by Waterloo.

    "The past couple of years haven't been his best years," Giles said.

    For his career at Mac, Raso finished with a record of 193-88, leading the Marauders to three OUA championships and four national title games.

    Calls to Raso were not immediately returned.

    Giles said the search for a replacement has already begun, though he stressed there is no timeline.

    "We'd like to have a coach that has a track record of success on the court but a big part of the job is also the relationship with community and the ability to promote McMaster basketball," Giles said.

    The decision to part ways with Raso was a tough one, Giles admitted.

    "His contribution to McMaster has been significant. The basketball tradition we have here is in large part because of Joe Raso and what he's accomplished," he said. "But there's always a time for a change and I thought that time was now."

  39. "For his career at Mac, Raso finished with a record of 193-88,"

    This is slap in the face to Coach Raso, and other CIS coaches, counting only the OUA conference games as his record.

    CIS schools continue to have a sweet deal in this regard. Recognize the games when they have to pay for them, or when it is convienent for them. I guess all those non-conference games and Bullying games at Copps never happened.

  40. Can someone from Hamilton tell me if Raso was only part-time at Mac? Was he still teaching at St. Mary's? That would be shocking to I thought he was full-time.

  41. The A.D. made a very wise decision,it was time for Raso to go,

  42. Yes, Raso is still teaching at St. Mary's, if I'm not mistaken. He was a part time coach, but you wouldn't know it from the commitment he made to recruiting in Hamilton.

  43. That's B.S., he's no hero, he was a supposedly a Part Time teacher at St. Mary's, but never really taught, he had a sweetheart deal from the HWCDSB, he rarely worked/ taught in the last 16 years, his only real job was coaching at Mac, he also got himself a lot perks/fringe benefits along the way in that position, I'm sure he'll miss that more than anything, however, Ottawa U is open, he could pick up and move there.

  44. What about Steve Maga as the new mac coach?

    Raso could go to Ottawa and try and compete with Smart?

  45. Time will tell whether Giles made the "wise" decision or not.
    Raso's only sin was not winning a national championship.
    Otherwise, he fashioned a record at Mac that will be hard for anyone to top.
    What these Raso haters fail to realize that it was Joe who
    made Mac at nationals a commonplace event.
    By kicking out Raso, Giles is under the gun.
    He must not only come up with a competent replacement, but an exceptional coach.
    Because Giles in so many words has promised a national championship.
    He'd better stand and deliver before long, or it will be time to let him go.

  46. Raso haters? Sounds like Raso lovers on this blog for the most part, maybe all the positive posts are coming from Raso & clan? Fact is, he hasn't produced the past few years, there are much better younger coaches out there making Joe look bad. If he was in the U.S., he would have been tossed long ago. Whoever tried to compare Raso to Smart, is a big fool, Smart wins championships, multiple I might add!

  47. Let me get this straight...
    Raso is let go yet Tommy K is still gainfully employed at Waterloo?
    LOL, TK is without doubt the worst coach in the OUA West.
    17 years at Waterloo and he's accomplished sweet FA.
    Talk about a guy who shoulda been tossed years ago.

  48. I agree, he should have been tossed too! Maybe he's next? Canada needs to step it up and expect accountability, integrity & production or get out.

  49. I don't think you understand the point I was trying to make Anon 11:09.
    What I'm trying to say is it is ironic that Joe gets dumped without
    much dignity by the roadside despite being by far the most successful coach in Mac's history.
    TK on the other hand, is symbolic of all that is wrong with Waterloo basketball.
    In all his years at Waterloo, Kieswetter has had ONE outstanding team.
    He made nationals a couple of times without any success there.
    But for the most part, Waterloo has been a .500 or sub .500 team on average two out of every three years under TK.
    I think his career record is under .500.
    Just look at this past year...a senior loaded team with a 9-13 record.
    Yet TK will remain at Waterloo because of the country club atmosphere there.
    The only thing they give a shit about is finishing ahead of Laurier
    ...oops, they didn't even do that, didn't they?
    And this is a school that once ruled the OUA with 4 straight Wilsons
    in the 70's and even has a national title.
    This current team besmirches the memory of Mike Moser.
    Waterloo was once synonymous with basketball excellence in Ontario.
    Now it is a blueprint on how not to build a program.

  50. About time someone had the guts to dispose of Raso. IMO, he's gotten away with murder for years. The goons gone, the Hammer can move on and up is the only way to go, not just on the court but in the classroom where it counts.

    FYI..his record was good, no doubt about that, but look at the time/era, the history of basketball and the Country on a whole over those years. Basketball's evolved and he was fortuitous, walked in at good time when the vine was ripe, others jumped on the bball wagon too and develeped tremendous interest and excellent skill level from a young age onward, thus the abundance of talent you now see spread through out OBA clubs across the Province and Country and praise to the top high school basketball programs and their coaches.

    I say its time he retire and be thankful for the opportunity he had for so many years.

  51. Maybe Raso can get the Waterloo job when Keiswetters gone, they are both dinosaurs, they need to be put out to pasture! The CIS/OUA/Canada basketball on a whole is weak. Our Country is hurting, we need qualified coaches, the real deal and sad to say, were LACKING!

  52. When will the truth come out about Raso? Why is everything swept under the rug? We are all tax payers and have a right to know why, what etc?
    Too many coaches get away with unprofessional and inappropriate conduct, I think full disclosure is in order. Perhaps Giles is heading in the right direction and soon others will have to follow suit.

  53. Does anyone know if Raso got a cushy exit package? Will he now have to pay tuition for all his kids like the regular folk?

  54. Anons 11:46, 11:52 and 12:02....
    Let me're all one and the same guy, right?
    OK, we get the point...over and over again.
    You don't like Raso.
    We know.
    He's no longer around so you must be very happy.
    Ding Dong, The Witch Is Dead.
    So why are you carrying on?
    "We taxpayers have a right to know"
    Know WHAT?
    "The truth" is out there?
    Come on buddy, get a grip.
    You finally got what you wanted, so why not give it a rest?
    Piling on just makes you look like an paranoid a-hole.
    Joe's gone so let's move on.

  55. I like Joe and wish him well,good luck to Oliver in his new position at Mac.

  56. Here's a list of canidates for the new head coaching position at Mac: Those who have confirmed interest are: Chris Oliver, Rob Smart, Steve Maga, Greg Francis and the wild card is Ray Kybartas....Those who have indicated publicaly that they are not interested are Dave Smart, Katz, Brad Rootes and Ken Murray... It is also rumoured that Ron Foxcroft is part of the selection committee helping in the search with Jeff Giles.... If true this is definetly a conflict of interest in my opinion.... The most intriging canidate is Ray Kybartas...He holds a Phd which Jeff Giles would love...He has coached professionally in europe and at Cathedral High School... He is well respected and has a grass roots movement to make him the next head coach at Mac.... Good Luck to all canidates....

  57. Out of all those names - Oliver is the best candidate for the job. I know he may have been an assistant under Raso, but in no way shape or form do they coach alike.

    Steve was a great player for Mac but where has he coached? I'm sure coaching experience is going to factor into Giles decision. His brother Mark has had more success at the high school level and would be a good candidate for the job too. If anyone has seen Mark on the sideline, it's obvious he is a solid technical coach, he gets the best out of his players, and he is constantly teaching.

    I would be shocked if Ray Kybartas even put his name in the hat for Mac. I don't see that happening.

    Greg Francis - has experience at the national level both as a player and coach. Obviously he showed he can recruit with his first recruiting class he brought in at U of A.

    Rob Smart - good, young up and coming assistant coach. Would be a good hire there as well.

  58. Those are all good candidates, and some with McMaster ties, which wouldn't hurt. Oliver, Maga, and Kybartas are all friends of Raso so that could feel a little strange. Oliver coming back would be similar to Roy Williams leaving Kansas to come back to North Carolina.

  59. Ray Kybartas has indicated that he is interested in the head coaching position... Many people have said that even Joe Raso is pushing him to apply to be the head coach at Mac...This makes a lot of sense considering that Joe's son is still on the team.. Don't count out Rob Bynum apparently he is also a canidate for the position. Chris Oliver is said be not intersted...Tell that to Queen's and Windsor...

  60. Wow Ray Kybartas... Talk about a class act... Go Mac... Jeff Giles would make a big splash by hiring Ray Kybartas... Good Luck Ray

  61. Is Mac creating a full time basketball coaching position? They had a sweet deal with Raso partially on the school board's dime. The new coach will have to be a full-time hire.

  62. I can't believe Ken Murray is being mentioned as a replacement. Rumour has it his head is on the chopping block after royally screwing up the best recruiting class in years at Brock. These old guys have long overstayed their welcome and need to move on to let young coaches in. Raso has alienated many in Hamilton with his antics on and off the court and the old boys network isn't supportive anymore. I say good for the program. If it takes a few years to produce results, then thats fine. The status quo wasn't doing it either.

  63. I too must agree with this change. History is just that...history...there is no excitement, no mad rush to play at Mac anymore. They are in fact losing several key players specifically because of Raso. Maybe they will reconsider leaving now. Does this sound like a good program heading in the right direction? With the talent pool dwindling because of U.S. schools poaching our best, we need to look ahead and put the past where it belongs. No one will deny Raso's past contributions but after the disasterous year with Christie and also putting his son ahead of quality veteran players this year in shameless self promotion, this was inevitable.








  66. Well your alumni donations were being squandered by Joe...fools for supporting him all these years

  67. Hey Anon 10:48, who do you think you are kidding dude? It's obvious you are the same poster ripping on Raso again. Like the man said, it's over so let it go. He's out at Mac so why keep bashing. You're just embarrassing yourself. Based on the comments there are quite a few who liked or respected Raso and then there's you. Give up the hate.

  68. ok bud...tons of raso lovers but only one basher...ha..who are you kidding?...more are happy with this decision that you can ever believe, just not vocal fanatics like you. so ya, let it go cause this is great news for Hamilton and Mac.

  69. To all you Mac fans....

    Joe Raso is still the same great coach he always was. Reality is, there are more West programs who have upped their level of play. Windsor is now an elite program, while Laurier under Peter Campbell has improved also. Western has always been good to great. Guelph is down but will be back...and Lakehead is showing signs of progress under Morrison. The point is, the west is much, much more competitive than it was 10 years ago when Mac was dominant. Get used to it folks. No one program will win every single year in the west.

  70. The AD statements are all positive and favourable towards Raso. He simply states it's time for a change. As the AD, that is his call. Now whether there is more behind the scenes or not, he would never publically admit that. It was handled appropriately and if Raso had any recourse to hold on to that job, I'm sure he would have done so. I don't understand why the antagonism towards the AD as he is in his rights to change things in his department as he sees fit. Thats his job. The OUA West has become much more competitive over the years and Mac, under Raso, hasn't maintained its advantage and capitalized on it. Any management decision like this in any other line of work would be accepted. It may be difficult to do but try to keep it in perspective and avoid getting emotional.

  71. The AD-GILES will be let go as soon as he gets all the dirty work done RASO was not the only one canned in this so called improvememt

  72. Great that Joe got to coach Victor for one year .


  73. Anon 1:46....
    Of course the AD's statements all positive and fuzzy wuzzy towards Joe.
    What the hell did you expect him to say...nice job Joe
    but ur old and obsolete...don't let the door hit you on the way out.
    All AD's say sweet things about coaches they've just canned.
    Truth is, it's a bunch of disingenuous bull.
    Yes, the OUA West is more competitive now than before.
    It was Joe who helped raise the bar in the first place.
    I hope Giles remembers that when he selects a replacement.
    As far as getting "emotional" is concerned...yeah,
    people are emotional over this...beggin' your pardon, sir.
    Giles better deliver on his big promises because if he
    doesn't, he might find his own head on the chopping block in 5 years.

  74. Thanks for confirming my suspicians, she was on a very short list of people that have had a vendetta against Mac for years because the coaches did not recruit either of her kids.

    The son had to be the most over-hyped kid in history. And where is he now?

  75. I see plenty of "anonymous" but no "disgruntled" names so which comment is attributed to this person? If you are so quick to post proper names on this site, then provide your own please. This is inappropriate and should be removed.

  76. I don't know about this other player issue but it has nothing to do with McMaster so it is a moot point and best left to the tabloids.

    I believe the coup de grace was the Ryan Christie fiasco. Many in the city knew of the weakness that Raso had for this player, despite the numerous problems he has had and would bring to the team. I recall the grumblings of the alumni and parent players about this situation and the unhappiness at Raso allowing it. Do not underestimate the power of the large alumni influence on the AD. They had a hand in this. No AD would attempt this type of action without substantial backing.

  77. I would be very surprised if Chris Oliver gets the job.
    He's put a lot of work into turning around Windsor's fortunes
    and already has an OUA championship which puts him in good stead in the community.
    I have heard he is paid quite well....maybe not "Smart money" but decent coin, nonetheless.
    It would, I believe, have to be an absolutely ludicrous offer to pry him out of there.
    Also, he could be headed into a pretty messy situation.
    This whole affair has the Hamilton bball community on the verge of civil war,
    between the pro Joe and anti Joe factions.
    Just by taking the job, he'll alienate some people.
    He's got a good situation in Windsor and I believe he hasn't come close
    to achieving all that he can there.
    If he left Windsor now, it would leave many in that town feeling betrayed.

  78. If they don't hire Chris Oliver (who is by far the best CIS candidate if he applies), then they should take a serious look at Mark Maga.

  79. So Chris Oliver is a better CIS candidate than Dave Smart or Kevin Hansen or Dave DeAveiro or Mike Katz or Ross Quackenbush or Steve Konchalski or even Brad Campbell ... Chris Oliver is a very good coach but let's not get carried away with by far the best CIS candidate.

    Coaching Hamilton high school and club ball successfully is one thing but many underrate how difficult coaching University is against the likes of the aforementioned folks above. This new AD with very little basketball background had better get some people around him who understand what it takes to win at the CIS level as a coach. Because most people not close to the game don't understand how hard it is to win in the CIS.

  80. I certainly echo the comments above, Coaching in the CIS much less the ultra competitive OUA West is a lot more difficult than you think. Whatever your feelings are on Coach Raso the way this was handled was ridiculous and this Giles guy is a royal dick for handling it this the saying goes careful what you wish for!

  81. My advice to any experienced coach is stay the heck away from the mess that will be Mac basketball. When you have a coach like Joe Raso and the many players who played for him...there will be hard feelings because of the way he was dumped. Also, it seems that this Giles has pretty high expectations. What coach wants that kind of pressure?

  82. Anon 10:35 AM
    Just how did Murray screw up the best recruiting class?
    They are an extremely young team team and they missed the playoffs in an ultra competitive conference
    but certainly were better than last year's team.
    Murray, in case you forgot, won a national championship three years ago.
    And he isn't going anywhere...he'll be there a couple of more years before Rootes takes over.
    That is the plan.

  83. It seems that the majority of players at Brock will no longer tolerate Ken Murray's communication style with them and have made it clear that if the coach remains,they will leave.

  84. For the person who wrote the following to a response...The guys you listed, aren't going to apply and I think the prior writer meant to say that Chris Oliver is the best CIS candidate likely to apply...

    "So Chris Oliver is a better CIS candidate than Dave Smart or Kevin Hansen or Dave DeAveiro or Mike Katz or Ross Quackenbush or Steve Konchalski or even Brad Campbell ... Chris Oliver is a very good coach but let's not get carried away with by far the best CIS candidate."

  85. There is no civil war, there is no mess, but a very supportive AD and strong alumni willing to do what it takes to facilitate change. Upsetting a few of the old guard is part of any change in leadership. Good luck to the new coach, whoever you are, you will have a great deal of support behind you.

  86. Anon 2:15...
    That's your spin.
    "Upsetting a few of the old guard"?
    There's more than just a few people who were taken aback.
    To say just his "cronies" are upset is being completely disingenuous.
    Outside of Hamilton, people are genuinely shocked and surprised at what's happened.
    There are other coaches in the league that
    would seem far more logical candidates for dismissal than Raso.

  87. Oliver or Francis and if neither of them then a high school guy. Darrell Glenn may be an interesting alternative however what existing coach would go into a situation knowing that he could get unceremonously canned at a moment's notice and be out of a job when making probably $100k or less ? If it is a high school guy, that person would be following a similar path that Raso took however the coaching landscape in the OUA (West and East) was much different then than now. AD will need much patience if he goes the local area high school route.

  88. It's called a contract folks. Any new prospect would know what to ask or demand in his contract. Raso was reportedly on a year to year contract, so he knew this could happen at any time. Why would everyone be so surprised? Now, if he had a long term contract and they paid him dearly to leave, that would be more shocking.

  89. If Mark Maga is so qualified why isn't he coaching the Senior team at Cathedral....Just asking....

  90. The one year contract was a handshake agreement between Raso and Quigley.
    In retrospect, I suppose Raso should have asked her to give him
    a long term deal her final year there, but then who knew?
    The lesson here is if you are an incumbent coach and are tight
    with the AD, make sure you've got a long term deal in your back pocket.
    In this case, Quigley left, a new sheriff came to town itching to make a name for himself...
    sorry Joe, you gotta go.

  91. ....If Mark Maga is so qualified why isn't he coaching the Senior team at Cathedral....Just asking....

    Mark was the senior coach at St Thomas Aquinas (where he won OFSSA AA) and then changed school boards. The Daly's had been coaching the Senior team for quite some time and Mark wasn't going to just come in and take the team over.

    All some people are saying is that he would be a good candidate for the job. He is an alumnus, he's well respected by the community and the alumni. The exact same could be said about Steve Maga. I would bet they both get interviews if they apply.

    If I'm the Mac AD, I would cover all areas to make sure I got the perfect coach, especially after the way everything else went down.

  92. "Perfect coach" eh?
    Yeah, that's about the size of it.
    Whoever comes in will be under the gun and on the clock.
    Just thinking about who was the last high profile coach who got
    dumped so unceremoniously....oh yeah, the coup d'etat in Brandon.
    Can't help but feel Oliver has more to lose than gain if he switched.
    At Windsor, he's well respected for turning around that program.
    I think he has just as good a recruiting base as there is in Hamilton.
    The last four years, Windsor has been at a level it hasn't seen in years.
    If I was him, it would take an awesome deal to make me walk out on
    what is a pretty good gig in the first place.
    Show me the money...lots and lots of money.

  93. The time for Oliver came and went already in Hamilton. Hindsight is 20-20 and most of the cream of the crop have landed in a comfortable place and not likely to move. That's what happens when coaches stay too long, their talented assistants don't see an opening any time soon and look elsewhere. That's another loss for Mac.

  94. Cantankerous4/29/2010 11:55 am

    Anon 4/28 3:58 PM....
    True, there is no "disgruntled" posting here...hardly anyone bothers with names.
    But on the Hoop-La discussion board, which is based in Hamilton, there
    is a frequent poster who goes by that name and he/she is a vociferous
    critic of Raso and has been so for some time.
    I do not pretend to know this person as I am not from the Hamilton area,
    but those posts indicate a deep-seated loathing based on
    personal experience.
    Whoever this person is, the criticisms have been constant,
    vitriolic and often very personal.
    Whoever this person is, it's obvious they hold a long standing grudge.

  95. Anon 10:15 makes an excellent point.

    Anyone thinking of taking the Mac job does so with the knowledge that the new AD has a "quick trigger". Bottom line is that this a job we are talking about. How many of us would walk into a position knowing up front that the expectations could be very unrealistic? I have no doubt that the new Mac AD will can the next coach within 3 years if there isn't at least 1 Wilson Cup championship. Heck that may even be less than what he is thinking! Who knows?

    I'd leave well enough alone if I were already established at another elite program.

    This job may appeal to someone younger with something to prove. In other words, willing to take a big risk.

  96. To be fair, there are equal positive posters of Raso. Are they all to be attributed to his family? wife, son? Let's not bother with this nonsense. I just see it as opposing sides stating their opinions. Take it or leave it but naming names, especially erroneously, is just bad form. Makes the Raso supporters look desperate. Being the head coach of a CIS team puts one in the spotlight. For better or worse, the hits and kudos should only fall on him.

  97. Jeff Zownir played for Joe Raso at Mac and has been coaching at St.Michael's College in Toronto
    for a number of years.
    He is another great candidate but like other full time high school teachers, unlikely to walk away from a pension and a career for a one year
    appointment and an uncertain future in CIS Basketball.

  98. I find it sad how many people slam coaches on here and justify it by saying, well there-coaches-that is what they signed up for!Joe Raso is a first class guy-that has done so much for basketball-and for McMaster University-period-end of story! Raso has done way more than any poster-AD, alumnus or fan..he has given 18 years of his life to grow and develop hoops in Ontario-Hamilton.
    It makes me sick to think that some posters expect a part-time basketball coach in the CIS to held to the same "standards of winning" that a pro coach would have. That is wrong-and a horrible model to set for Canadian University sport. The new model-little help-no resources-lousy pay-no job security--and don't worry when we fire 20 coaches a year for not winning we will also slam you online...what a disaster.

  99. Someone posted that Mac has a supportive AD, but I don't know how you can say that. He's on the job for less than a year and gases a highly successful coach without an obvious reason, other than it's time for a change. That's is pretty lame. Saddest part of this is that the Mac players were not consulted at all, and none of the prominent basketball alumni were asked their opinion. Someone with some influence got into the AD's ear and sold him on this move. Pretty weak start for Jeff Giles although he probably has his chested all pumped up for being so "bold"

  100. LOL a "supportive" AD, my ass.
    The only thing Giles has "supported" so far are the opinions of
    the anti Raso crowd, to whom he has obviously kowtowed.
    Therese Quigley was a supportive AD in the truest sense of the word.
    She wouldn't have stabbed Joe in the back like that, ever.
    I used to think Mac athletics was a class act but now...
    I suppose Giles is a hero to some people. but to a lot of others, in Hamilton and across the country he is something of a fink.

  101. Oh wow...cry me a river you clowns. I come on this site and to see that a fine young Brock athlete lost his life in a tragic accident and all you guys can do is complain that the cushy job for your friend is gone. Keep things in perspective people. Raso had a good run, it's over. Time for someone else to get a shot at it.

  102. My comment is if a coach as successful as Coach Raso can be fired how safe are the other coaches at Mac? The football team has been struggling for years should we be expecting changes there also? With Giles CFL connections could he be considering bring in a CFL player as a HC if Mac does not show improvement soon?

  103. maroonandgrey4/29/2010 9:46 pm

    Biggest benefactor of this decision is Joe Raso himself. I often watched Joe on the sidelines the past few years wondering if he'd make it through the game without a heart attack. He seemed more and more frustrated over the past few years and that's what a lack of success will do to a veteran coach. Less patience for the growth of players. The way you build programs and nurture talent is not by belittling the players that he himself recruited- which he did time and time and again. He would then go after plugs like Terry Licorish, Toms Lokmanis (we all know they enrolled in classes in name only) undercutting the confidence of younger players that could use the development. Terry was 28 years old and supposed to be the saviour of this season? If I'm Giles, I can't pretend a situation like this is OK.

    Joe is a fine technical coach and great man off the court. But I know too many players that avoided Mac because of his reputation - (gosh, let's make a list of players that have quite under his tenure...)

    He was a pioneer for Mac ball and brought it to another level. He will be missed by many, but I for one, am looking forward to a new era of Marauder Basketball.

  104. kudos to Giles.. I strongly agree with the comment above me.. the only determiner of his own fate was Raso himself.. He could not control his emotions/actions on the court, and as a Marauder myself, it was kind of scary at times watching him yell at that great group of guys.. Raso was lucky enough to work 18 years with the marauders, now its time I believe he puts the whistle away..

  105. I agree with a few comments inregard to other coaches maybe going to get the axe also. The girls BB teams have also had success but have not been able to win the big game and the football team has been in the mid to lower end of CIS football since Greg Marshall left. Could these teams be looking for new coaches soon too?

  106. With regards to the women's team, Burns has won 4 OUA titles since 1999,
    the most of any coach the past decade.
    The most recent was 2008.
    If not winning "the big one" means a national title well, in case you haven't
    noticed, OUA teams winning national titles has been as rare as hen's teeth the past 20 years.
    In fact, apart from the Laurentian dynasty of the 70's,
    the OUA has won three national titles the past 31 years.
    That Canada West league is simply on a different level than
    any other conference in Canada.
    Unless Giles can come up with someone demonstrably better like
    Deb Huband or Kathy Shields, I suggest he'd leave well enough alone.
    Burns has done a great job with the program and unlike Raso,
    doesn't seem to have the behaviour issues that follow him around.

  107. Comments that the next coach should be wary of an AD with a quick trigger finger are off base IMHO. Raso was not Giles guy so it was easy to mae a move, but the next coach at Mac will be the hand-pcked choice of the AD and his success or failure will reflect directly on Giles. You can bet the new coach will get whatever resources are available and the AD will be as asupportive as possible because if that coach fails then it's also a failure for the AD.

  108. Loyalty is something in Canada that we do not cherish in basketball and that is a shame. Joe Raso did a fine job in his 18 years at MAC and should have been allowed the privilage to coach his own son at the school he built into a national contender for 12 of his 18 seasons!How many CIS coaches have done that?

    We always bash and blame our coaches for everything but in fact I would say the administration play as large a role as the coach for success and failure. I am not a MAC basketball alumnus, but if I was I would have trouble supporting the school now. At least let him go out on his own terms not firing him after naming his recruiting class. Pathetic.

  109. As a former Mac player, I find the manner in which this was handled sad and disturbing. Joe deserved better. It is certain that Giles did not make this decision alone. You don't fire a coach with Joe's stature on a whim: there had to be some heavy hitters behind this. As for a boycott, that is silly, I'm a Marauder first and always. Giles just better get this right!

  110. Actually, here in Canada we are loyal to a fault.
    Compared to the cut throat world of NCAA basketball, there
    actually is some form of job security for the most part in the CIS.
    You look around the CIS men's basketball landscape and
    there are
    many examples of coaches who have been there a long, long time.
    And most of those coaches don't have a CV anywhere as good as Raso's.
    In the last few years though, attitudes seem to be changing.
    We have seen a number of long time coaches leave in recent years, some
    on their own volition while others were booted out.
    Horwood, Bain and Pomykala left on the own terms.
    Paiment at Laval was forced to leave for health reasons as did Boydell at Western.
    Raso and Hemmings are the most noteworthy cases.
    Both were the most successful coaches their respective schools had ever known.
    Both were polarizing figures in the basketball community.
    There seemed no ambivalence towards either loved them or loathed them.
    Ultimately, both were removed when there was a change in the administration.
    On the whole, there seems to be an attitude shift in CIS sports.
    There appears to be a new breed of AD in Canadian university sports,
    one that doesn't except status quo and mediocrity but demands excellence and accountability.
    Drew Love, late of Carleton and now at McGill, typifies the new wave.
    I only hope the CIS doesn't evolve into a clone of the American model, which is ridiculously cutthroat.

  111. Poor AD's. They are blamed when a program is unsuccessful for not providing enough support. They are blamed when they don’t fire a coach who can’t consistently win. They are accused of no loyalty when they do fire a coach that may have been there too long. When an AD takes some responsibility to make the decision to “go in a new direction” all the “old boys” scream the loudest.
    Change is difficult – but someone has to be responsible for making the decision to make changes. The game evolves, the players get better, the competition continues to improve, the refs stay current with the game (hopefully) and so must the coaches.
    The biggest challenge for any coach is the ridiculous hours of work, travel schedules, endless recruiting trips, constant teaching and the changing landscape of the sport they love, all in an environment of academic challenges for their players and demands from family. Exhaustion and burn out are more likely than not. But the expectation of fans, alumni and the administration (at least at some schools) continues to weigh heavily on the coach. It is a very difficult and challenging profession.
    Administrations must compensate coaches accordingly and I assume that many do not.
    But as coaches seek professional status, greater compensation and some job security (perhaps an oxymoron for professional coaches?) they must also assume more accountability for their team’s performance. This comes with the territory. They must assume accountability for their own behavior on and off the court. They must assume some responsibility for the behavior and academic progress of their student-athletes. They must understand that AD’s cannot meet unrealistic demands for resources in the name of "support". Some responsibility lies with the professional coach to live within their means and accomplish agreed upon goals. AD’s must work with the coach and set those agreed upon goals and hold the coach accountable. If they can’t agree on those goals then the coach must go. A simple reality.
    Coaching is certainly a passion for most and it should be a well rewarded profession for some. But just because you have a passion for coaching does not mean you are a good coach. And only the best deserve professional status. In coaching, especially in a university setting, the “best” is measured by many more factors than your historical record.
    This society lives for today and looks to the future. Judge the AD by where they are going not by where they are now. That is the challenge of a good AD. And hold them accountable for that.

  112. Very well said!

  113. Yes I agree! Anon 10:53 am, that was perfect!

  114. It is important to keep in mind that in the U.S. a coach is canned if he doesn't show success in any 3 - 5 year period. I do not know coach Raso personally, nor do I know anything about how he runs a program beyond the handful of games that I watched his teams play over the past 3 years. What I do know is, that if we want the level of coaching, and the overall level of university basketball to improve in this country, there needs to be accountability for coaches for their team's performance on a year to year basis.

    While Giles may not have gone about his release of Raso 'the right way', cudos to both him and the new Ryerson A.D. for making winning a priority, and having the balls to make a difficult change. Joe Raso seems like a great guy and a solid coach, so we should all take comfort in the fact that he will undoubtedly land on his feet. As a basketball fan, however, I am excited to see new coaches get an opportunity to prove themselves... competition pushes all coaches to be better at their jobs. There are a handful of the 'old guard' remaining in the OUA, maybe it's time for some new blood...coaches with new idiologies and approaches to teaching the game.

    We've seen the success that Smart (my former coach) has had at Carleton, and we've witnessed how his programs have faired well in exhibition games against D1 opponents over the last 5 years (including victories against a handful of those opponents). It's time for us to collectively quit bickering over the details and admit that if we want advancement in the level of basketball in this country, we have to take the same business-like approach to our university level basketball programs.

    Like it or lump it, it will be interesting to see what comes out of all of this.


  115. A Raven Maniac4/30/2010 2:41 pm

    Anon 1:48 aka DT...

    Where and when did Dave coach you?
    Are you a former Raven?
    I have always wanted to ask someone who has played for Dave Smart
    if the public perception of him at all like the reality?
    Media types, some of them anyway, compare him to Bob Knight which I think is totally off base.

  116. At a Raven Maniac ... I hope you didn't get that from anything I wrote. I always thought calling any coach "the Bobby Knight of" was kind of lazy.

  117. The Lonely Napoleon will soon run the Mac Athletic Dept into the ground, undoing years of hard, successful work by loyal people.

  118. Anonymous here again...

    Many talk about how an employee was let go unfairly, the process was flawed, the employee was never given feedback on how they were doing, never given a chance to get better, didn't deserve to be treated this way, the timing was heartless (it's too close to Christmas, a birthday, a holiday) etc. etc. etc.

    Well one truth about employee relations is that the employer rarely talks openly about the real facts of the case. It would be suicidal if they did. Labour relations just won't allow this level of public disclosure. Maybe the employee’s character, their inability to work in a team setting, their personal conduct, their language, their inappropriate behavior or their personal associations (who they hang with) were part of it. This is a whole side of the employer-employee relationship that remains for the most part unwritten in any contract but at managerial levels is surely understood.

    When the relationship goes sour, or the employee is simply no longer able to “fit in” , or the culture changes and they can’t adapt, or the organization wants to move in a new direction and the employee doesn’t want to move with it, then the parties need to part their ways. Sometimes the decision has nothing to do with the fact they show up at work on time every day and perform their written duties as described.

    Yet the employee, but more often their supporters, can claim anything they want to claim under the guise of "process" or "fairness", "loyalty" or “managerial incompetence”. These supporters often ignore the truth, ignore the obvious, recreate history, play with statistics or claim knowledge that they really don't have. Speculation and rumour run rampant, but the truth is rarely known. Few employees will tell you why they were let go – but many will tell you why they shouldn’t be.

    But the naysayers are not finished yet. Once they hash over the reasons why the employee should never have been dismissed in the first place (the personal side of the dismissal) they now go after the employer, sometimes on a personal level but more often on a professional level.

    The employer is incompetent, acting independently of their organization or draconian and “heavy-handed” in their actions. Not a good leader, a good visionary or of good character. The "lonely Napoleon".

    For some reason these “concerned citizens” think they should have been told about this decision in advance? The employer should have been open and transparent and consulted with them about future plans, or the new job description, or the new organization or the new budget in advance. When the employer keeps confidential information confidential, when the employer remains silent regarding the dealings with their employees, when the employer handles sensitive information with discretion, then the employer is not being forthright, inclusive or transparent.

    When an issue like this hits the desk of the senior administrator it is usually never good news. And there is never a good time for that.

  119. It's business...plain and simple...and that's how it's done in the real world. Attacking those that agree with this decision and the change it brings to Mac only demonstrates ignorance of the process. Thank you anonymous 10:28am...well said.

  120. the problem with the above two posts is that they assume that hard-and-fast, cutthroat tactics that symbolize success in the business world apply to a University setting in which emotions and loyalty play a role in the long-term relationship between the school and alumni/community. Do you think Mac's new facilities would have any chance of being built without shows of loyalty (which is an emotion) among other things by the previous administration. Giles blatent insensitivity to these loyalties including his lack of sensitivity to his staff on communicating these difficult changes puts Mac on the path of eating their own. I would submit that while there numerous examples of this tactic working well in the world of finance/business where transience is the norm and companies/relationships come and go, it may be very dangerous to believe this same type of approach applies where you either support your alma mater or you don't and you usually do when the alma mater provides the emotional impetus to do so. Best of luck Mr. Giles with your spreadsheets and ivory tower ways in an environment where making people feel wanted and valued is the proven way to succeed.

  121. Not sure Anon 10:28 said anything against relationship building, loyalties, good alumni/community relations or the value of positive emotions?

    Regardless of where you work, private or public sector, good labor relations and good business practices must apply. As a donor myself, I expect this to be true or I would not entrust my donation to the school.

  122. And as a donor, I expect accountability and responsibility to the school, yes, but also to be run efficiently and not just as a personal stage for anyone willing but not able to do the job.
    Anyon 10:28 nailed it when he said that we just don't know the inner workings here. There would never be any disclosure of wrong doing made public by the AD. In fact, I would have expected a resignation before a dismissal but perhaps that is expecting too much. One has to wonder at the decision in that matter. Had Raso been given the option? Would there have been any benefit to him to have resigned and saved face? Or is this yet another attempt to blame the AD and get his supporters to publically support him?

    In the real world, offers to accept resignations are the usual course when two sides don't agree. Dismissals denote misconduct, bad faith and many other negative scenarios. Past performance and loyalties to an institution will only go so far.
    We will never know the true story as Giles and Raso both will never divulge the truth. It would benefit neither.
    Suffice it to say that Giles definitely had the backing of the powers that be, and in any business, that's what counts most.

  123. There are two sides to every story, but in labour relationships there is also a concept called progressive discipline, which means that performance is evaluated on an on-going basis and at regular intervals and that goals and objectives are clearly established and concerns are communicated. This allows both the emplyee and the employer to chart job performance, take note of any issues, and make necessary adjustments. It allows employers to track poor performance or failure to meet objectives and act accordingly, such as providing warnings, denying pay raises, and if necessary termination. But it also gives the employee fair warning that there may be problems and the chance to change how they do they job, adjust to meet set goals, or conversely if the employee surpasses the set objectives they can justify asking for a raise. Any employer has the right to terminate an employees even if they are top performers, but those employees must be compensated. If there has been no progressive discipline, an act of termination can be grounds for a wrongful dismissal lawsuit.

    It's true that the truth in this case will never be known, and reasons for terminations are rarely disclosed outside of obvious reasons such as breaking the law, stealing or other inappropriate actions like sexual harrassment. None of that applies in this case.

    If there were problems, the coach should have been made aware of them and given a chance to form a response. That would not necessarily have resulted in a different outcome but would have been prudent management, especially as an employer looking at future hirings.

    The longer a person performs a job, especially a high profile task, the greater the assumption that they are meeting the goals and objectives of the position. A poor performance would not have survived for 18 years, as no manager would allow poor performance to go on that long.

    If anyone believes that there is a coach in this country that has not had complaints lodged against them, that is incredibly naieve. Players and parents will complain about playing time, alumni will complain about losing records, other staff may complain about someone being difficult to work with, and those have to be reviewed by the AD and the merit of the complaints assessed. If someone doesn't get along with a coach and is constantly complaining to his supervisors out of spite, should someone lose their job because of that. Of course not.

    With less than a year on the job, this AD could not have formed the requisite window of evaluation to make an informed decision. It is not possible. Therefore he has obviously relied on other parties to provide information and justify this decision. There is no other logical explanation, given the lack of progressive discipline that seems to be apparent.

    He's in charge so he can make a change if he wants and he did, but it is a dangerous message to send out to the public that is being courted for support in many different ways. Th isalso raises questions about who is really calling the shots at McMaster.

  124. Quigley was not going to upset the status quo after so many years as AD. Giles was brought in to do this, I'm sure of it. As stated, the big guns are responsible for this and to place blame on the front man and trash his rep is futile. Judging from his past accomplishments and persona, he doesn't give a damn anyways.
    Anyone in a position of employment for a lengthy period may have earned a thank you or gold watch, but no one owes anyone a job just because they were there forever. I don't agree that he was dumped unceremoniously. What else could be done? The public statement was not derogatory or inflammatory. It just stated a parting of ways due to difference of opinion in direction of program. Happens all the time when there is a change at the top.

    My understanding of contracts may be rudimentary but when it's up and choosing not to renew gives the employee not much recourse. Remember, this yearly deal gave Raso an out if he were to be unhappy with the AD, got a better offer etc. and wanted out as well. So if Raso wanted a lifetime job, he should have negotiated that contract when he had a favourable AD in Quigely. Best lesson for CIS coaches everywhere is to know what you want and negotiate for it.

    This all comes down to hurt feelings of not being appreciated and being embarassed. Its definitely unpleasant but its also not the crime against humanity that people are making it out to be.

  125. No one saying it is a crime; what I am implying is that the manner in which this and other changes within the Mac athletic department were executed creates a president very different from how the Mac athletic department has behaved through the years when they became the model for how to build strong relationships with their alumni and community, the fruits of which have been realized with their wonderful facilities. The present AD's first significant set of actions sets a very different tone, one that, if continued, will undo much of the good that has been done in the last 15 or so years.

  126. It is rather presumptuous to attribute all the great facilities and financial backing to one athletic program and the person running it.
    It wouldn't surprise me at all to find out that this AD was brought in to do this as his #1 mandate and to move on after a respectable time.
    The unsavoury taste left in everyone's mouth comes from all the speculation and bickering over perceived slights against Raso. He wanted to keep his job as it was and how he always did it. The new boss was brought in to tell him to change his ways because it wasn't what the brass wanted. Raso refused so his contract was not renewed. I can't see anything wrong in how that went down. I suppose those wanting a fuzzy, warm and happy place with lifelong job security can't understand that concept. As far as I know, only teachers get that.

  127. Who said anything about attributing all that stuff to one person ? There was a great team of people behind these efforts - not just the former AD - and the new AD's behavior runs counter to how that team worked.

    And how do you know that the new boss ever told him anything about changing his ways ? *That's* presumptous and by all accounts, entirely incorrect.

    This AD's operating style is quickly putting Mac on a path that will destroy much of the success on and off the playing fields instead of accelerating it.

  128. As a former Mac player and ardent booster, I have a significant emotional investment in this, however like other posters I have no real inside information, just educated guesses. Having said that, I just can't buy the oft used cliche that, "we want to take it to the next level." Joe had taken it to the next level...many times. Because he hadn't won it all was no reason to dismiss him. There are many revered coaches who have never won "the big one" (eg: Marv Levy with the Bills). I must conclude therefore, that it has to do with his coaching style, which some have referred to as intense. If this is the case, I agree with Brad and progressive discipline. With a coach who has been successful and loyal etc., etc. why could a rookie AD not have said, "We have concerns with your coaching behaviour and we would like to work with you for the coming season. If there is no improvement we'll go in a different direction?" Because this was not done Giles must have gotten heat from above.

    I have found the previous posts interesting and informative.

  129. And who's to say that the choice to change or leave wasn't given and that Joe refused. I can certainly see that happening, given his arrogance. So the AD has no choice but to remove him. Personally, I think Joe crossed the line with Christie and paid dearly for it.
    As for the AD style being such a problem for everyone, not to worry, I'm sure he'll be gone soon enough to wreck havoc somewhere else. There is always another place where the dirty work needs to be done.

  130. John Millar (charter member of Courtside Club)5/01/2010 11:10 pm

    I know for a fact that nothing like that happened. Joe Raso was told to come to the AD's office to talk about the budget for the coming year. When he arrived, Jeff Giles was there with a member of the finance committee and was told that his contract was not being renewed. Total discussion.

  131. Has anyone talked to Joe? What's his take on this?

  132. I am a CIS fan but an relative outsider to the OUA. The Christie issues have been mentioned often here in the above discussion. I know this was talented young man that was removed at some point during the season. Can anyone fill me in on what allegedly happened here that made this such an embarrassing problem for Joe/Mac basketball?

    Also any word on the recruits that were recently announced? I can imagine they might be worried about coming into this situation. A new coach may want to bring in his own recruits and would owe these young men nothing.

  133. Mr. Miller, if what you say is what truly transpired then indeed there is more behind this than what appears on the surface. It would benefit Mr. Raso greatly if his supporters would let this go as further inquiry may expose unfavourable details. I, for one, would not appreciate this kind of scrutiny. It would appear that the decision was made collectively by administrators and there must have been enough transgressions to warrant this action.

    To answer about Ryan Christie, it is inappropriate to discuss in depth on a discussion board. Suffice it to say that he is well known to the Hamilton basketball community as being a detriment for many reasons but was taken on at Mac anyways. Some applaud Raso for giving the player a chance and others chastized him for doing so at the expense of his other players.

  134. It is incredibly presumtuous and insulting for you to imply that there was some hidden litany of "transgressions" that led to this situation. Jow Raso has represented McMaster in a very professional manner, and while his on-court demeanour may not be to some person's tastes, he was always extremely professional in all other settings. Raso is not the only CIS coach who acts in a demonstrative and highly emotional way, and I could name several like Smart, O'Rourke, Konchalski, and Charters who are just as animated on the sideline. It is a style and that is all.

    For you to imply that there is something to justify this move by the Mac AD is a thinly veiled attempt to distract attention away from a very unpopular move that has resulted in considerable backlash. Don't you think that if there were a justification for this move that it would have been put front and center, given the high profile this person enjoys?

    This was an arbitrary move fueled by interests that knew Joe Raso was a man of integrity and would not be pushed around, so they got him out in order to further their own agendas. What those may be is open to speculation.

  135. If there were any transgressions as you have implied, I certainly don't know of them, and would be shocked that I could be so blind as to not notice, as close as I have been to the situation. Most of the McMaster higher-ups have been (to the best of my knowledge) very supportive of the Raso regime. Peter George has reserved seats in the second row of the seatback section, near centre court, and they are rarely empty. Dr. Phil Wood attends virtually every game, home and away, and attends all Courtside Club functions. He even works the microphone for the CFMU radio broadcasts. VP Roger Trull attends as often as time permits, and is a close friend to Don Bridgman, President of the Courtside Club. He has also made several trips to Halifax to cheer on the Marauders (as have the aforementioned duo).

    As for the previously-announced recruits, I heard that they contacted Joe Raso, and asked what he wanted them to do. If that is true, it certainly speaks volumes for what they think of Joe.

    I also hear that the CIS coaching community is furious with this turn of events, and a similar reaction is prevalent amongst former players and parents of former players. I also ran into a Hamilton basketball referee, and he asked me for an explanation, and said that community is shocked as well (a little surprising considering Joe's sideline behaviour).

    I really would like to talk to Jeff Giles myself, to try to get to the bottom of this.

  136. Joe was a very good coach and person. His record stands for itself. Too many of you bozos have no clue as to what CIS coaches go through. Otherwise, you would show some respect to people who have done something marvellous in very difficult situations. Go through the OUA over the past 20 years and maybe give some respect to people who have made something from nothing. Go ahead list them.

  137. As for a litany of transgressions, I know of none other than his coaching "antics", which have been a concern for some for many years. The implication of previous posts is that Giles made the decision with minimal justification and if that's true Mac athletics is in for a rough time. As a die-hard Marauder, I have no choice but to hope otherwise now that the deed is done. I am confident, however, that Joe's replacement will be a good one.

  138. Seriously, go ahead and list the coaches at an OUA school who over the past 30 years who have made something from nothing. Give some respect!

  139. Let me clarify 'transgressions". I simply meant that there must have been some actions or lack thereof contrary to what the administrators deemed acceptable that led to this decision.
    In other words, he pissed off the wrong people for some reason and thats just what happens.

  140. Does Joe have any recourse?
    Can he file a grievance with the union...
    heck, is he even a union member?
    Does he have a legitimate case for wrongful dismissal?
    It seems telling an employee, especially a longtime one, "we're going in another direction",
    just doesn't cut it as a reason to dismiss someone.
    To me it's a non answer.
    I suppose the university could say Joe wasn't "fired"...
    he just didn't have his contract renewed.
    That's the way they do things in the CIS...these buggers have all the loopholes covered.

  141. Outside of Hamilton did anyone know about St. Mary's basketball before Raso? Two Ofsaa appearances and one gold. Before Raso, what kind of national profile did Mac have? The reality is the numbers don't lie. Granted he did not win gold but very few do. Should Mac strive to be the best? Of course? Dave Smart is at a certain level in CIS basketball but there is no argument out there that doesn't insert Raso in the next category of coaches in the CIS. I trust Giles and his ego believe the next Dave Smart will be coaching Mac this October although highly unlikely. 'A bird in the hand....' would have been a better strategy.

    BTW for those slagging V. Raso. Being named to the All Rookie team suggests he's got some game.

  142. Ok, I have a question...who hired Jeff Giles?
    Was it the university president?
    Was there a selection committee?
    Did the person or persons who hired him have any knowledge
    he was intending to make changes?
    Maybe its time they made a public statement supporting their new AD
    because if they approve of the move, it's kind of gutless IMO to let him take all the heat alone.

  143. I can't say for certain who hired Giles or how high up they are, but make no mistake, this move was sanctioned by them. So many people refuse to see it for what it is. Giles was brought in to do this. Raso was apparently not as beloved as eveyone here thought. I don't presume to know the intimate details but action taken by the AD definitely supports my conclusions.

  144. Chris Oliver has indicated that he will be meeting with Chris Giles this week...

  145. As a Lancer supporter, I have no issues with our coach interviewing with Mac. He is a Mac grad and basically learned the job as a Mac assistant. Also, Chris' wife is from Hamilton. Given his background, he should consider the offer. Having said this, I'm betting that he stays in Windsor. Quite frankly, Windsor is a better situation for an elite coach. I want Coach Oliver to stay of course. If he leaves for Mac, I'm quite confident that our AD will be able to bring in another elite coach given what Coach Oliver has been able to accomplish here over the last 5 years.

  146. Just so I'm clear on this...Jeff Giles was hired to fire Joe Raso. Is that what you are saying?

    And it took almost a year to complete the hit on the target? Man, that is some serious planning and cold-blooded action. You make McMaster sound like the Mafia. Does that mean President Peter George is the equivalent of Don Corleone?

    Considering the Dr. George and Coach Raso are golfing buddies, that makes the plot even more diabolical.

    Whether you like Coach Raso or you don't, let's not get ridiculous.

  147. Hey Anon9:58, I know you are a Lancer fan, but other than lower admission standards, how can you say Windsor is a preferable spot to McMaster for a basketball coach. Mac facilities blow Windsor out of the water. The St. Denis Centre is a giant barn buit for indoor track, while Mac has one of the best gyms in Canada, especially after the recent renos. Not to mention Windsor has to be one of the most economically depressed communities in Canada and that is just a fact. Hamilton is no garden of Eden, but much more centrally located for recruiting purposes. And lastly, I know the Windsor high school scene a bit, and there are too many high school coaches with their own little empires, encouraging local kids to head to the states because it looks good on them. Coach Oliver has done a great job but how long can you keep hustling for Juco kids on the rebound. That`s no way to build a program, IMHO.

  148. No way to build a program?
    Are you for real?
    Josh Collins....
    Enrico Di Loreto?
    2 starters right out of high school?
    Complementing that with some kids that Coach Ollie recruited WHEN they were in high school such as Wiltshire?
    Take a look around....most coaches will take kids from community colleges, juco's etc...if they are a fit.
    Do not downplay admissions my friend. Pay attention to demographic trends. You may think being close to the major population centre is a plus....I say it will become a curse to schools such as Waterloo, Mac, Guelph, UT etc.
    Facilities? Within 5-7 years you will see construction of a state of the art athletics and convocation centre at Windsor. The fieldhouse will remain a track and intramural venue. A new combination basketball, volleyball, convocation "arena" will blow away anything in the OUA.
    The Windsor basketball program is the best funded with regard to fully funded awards.
    With regard to the "economy"...true times are tough right now...but Windsor will bounce always has. Windsor's future is brighter than Hamilton's in my opinion. We are strategically located on the busiest US-Canada border.
    The feds just announced that they are fully committed to fixing the border. The new bridge and roadway leading to it...will cost close to $6 billion. I'd say it'll take about 10,000 workers to complete the work over the next 5 years.
    If Coach Oliver takes the Mac job, I'll be the first to congratulate him. Then I'll put in my 2 cents about his replacement. I'm sure that we'll keep what he started going. In fact, I'm 100% certain about it.

  149. If I was a Lancer supporter, I would be very concerned.
    Maybe things have been good the last 4-5 years or so, but I can
    remember how bleak it was for Windsor basketball for so many years.
    It took a long, long time before the Lancers finally found a top notch coach.
    Don't assume that if Oliver goes, the athletic dept. will find a
    coach of equal calibre in short order.
    And don't underestimate the influence of a spouse upon a coach's decision
    to accept or decline a job offer, regardless of how attractive it is.
    Dave DeAveiro, I have been told, was all set to take the Ryerson job but
    his wife did not want to leave Ottawa and her good job.
    So he wound up at McGill, instead, mainly because his wife didn't have to give up her job.
    The fact Oliver's wife is from Hamilton is a big plus for MAC.
    And you can bet the house that Giles will go all out to land him.
    Oliver, I suspect, was Giles' target all along.
    Giles certainly stuck his neck out letting Raso go.
    Not landing Oliver would mean resorting to Plan B...whatever that is.

  150. No question..there are other variables involved in this type of decision. The spouse in question may indeed be a factor.

    Look, I 100% credit Coach Oliver for resurrecting a once proud basketball tradition.
    BUT, he isn't the only highly rated coach in all of Canada.
    If he leaves, we go and get another great coach.
    Heck, maybe Joe Raso will come to Windsor!
    It's all pure speculation until Mac makes it decision.

  151. You have your opinion and I have mine. It`s nice to talk about what will happen in 5-7 YEARS!!! Until there is something in place that blows away everything in the OUA, the Lancers play in a giant barn. How can you say Windsor is the best funded program when you can`t have any clue about what other programs are offering their student athletes. Mac has been running a scholarship dinner for a lot longer than Windsor, and in fact where do you think Coach Oliver got the idea. I admitted that admissions is an advantage and the ability to get kids in is a great benefit, but I still think that recruiting a kid from Barrie or Toronto is easier if they are a little closer to home.
    How many Windsor kids go to Windsor...not many.

  152. "How many Windsor kids go to Windsor...not many"

    This isn't 1970 anymore. If the program had to rely on Windsor kids alone...we wouldn't win.
    Who has Chris lost from Windsor, that could have started? No one.
    In fact, Andre Smythe came back from CMU to play for Chris.
    You recruit the best players you can...who cares where they are from.
    The Lancer's have the full allotment of AF awards. You can't do better than that. Also, Windsor is very generous with regard to academic money.
    Actually, we have no need for a "scholarship" dinner. You just proved my point. We are fully funded right now.
    Any fund raising we do is for the overall basketball budget. Recruiting trips, travel etc.

    No matter what happens over the next few weeks....I'm quite confident that Windsor will win a CIS title before Mac ever does.

  153. I thought those Windsor teams from the 60's were
    chuck full of American players.

  154. Do you think McMaster would make a move like this if the powers that be weren`t prepared to give the new coach as much in the way of resources and support as possible under the regulations. I think you guys should not assume that Chris oliver is the only candidate for the position. Whoever gets that job will have a pretty extensive honeymoon period because the AD has put his own reputation on the line.

  155. How easy is it to break a 5 year contract in the OUA? Oliver signed his 5 year in 2008

  156. Brad is showing his emotions here. He feels badly for his friend and I can understand that. I can also see how the AD would have watched the season, in all it's glory, unfold as it had. It doesn't stretch the imagination much to believe that he didn't like what he saw and was able to put up a compelling arguement for change. And isn't President George out as well? Retiremnet has that affect on people. They just want to collect their big dollars, accept all the fanfare and move on without getting mixed up in controversy.
    There are evidently not too many on this board that are in the business sector or they would know that this is really nothing unusual.

    On the other topic, Oliver having a contract could be detrimental. It depends on what the "out" clause is. No one knows but Oliver himself if it's worth the price to move.

  157. Is it "really nothing unusual" to drop an employee after 18 years who is well
    known in the community without the courtesy of telling that person TRUTHFULLY
    the full reasons why he is being let go?
    Isn't it true in the business sector employees are subject to regular
    performance evaluations and are given recommendations or in some cases warnings to correct situations management feels is undesirable?
    Joe Raso was interviewed today by Bob McCown on the Fan 590.
    In that interview, Raso said he was never given a formal performance appraisal,
    never once was told he was on shaky ground and for the most part,
    had little in the way of communication with Giles.
    In a previous interview Raso said that when he was called into Giles office
    to be fired, he was told it was about some budget concern....
    So what have we got?
    We got a new AD who communicated infrequently with the coach,
    who never indicated to the coach his job was in jeopardy, and
    was totally disingenuous when luring Raso into his office to fire him.
    Furthermore, he only told Raso face to face some lame stock excuse for letting him go,
    instead of telling him the whole truth.
    Look, if Giles wanted to make a change, I get it.
    But be honest to the man and to the public.
    There is a right way and a wrong way for dismissing a long serving employee
    and Giles' method of handling it was as brutal as it could get.
    All in all, a real super shit way to treat a human being,
    let alone a well respected comunity figure.

  158. "All in all, a real super shit way to treat a human being,
    let alone a well respected comunity figure."

    Bang on...and I would ask the incoming coach if they would be OK having this Giles character as "boss".

    I wouldn't....dream job or not. Giles needs to be punished. Maybe some 25 year old with no CIS experience will end up taking the job.

    That would certainly get Giles himself fired.

  159. Perhaps Giles was being kind, not detailing the litany of grievances. We only have Raso's word and his take on it. I don't put much stock in that as I've come to realize most CIS coaches are snakes in one form or another. Don't try to sell it that Raso or any of them walk on water.
    Budget concerns? No kidding. Squandering is more like it, with impunity for years. So I do think there may be much more behind this than Giles is willing to make public. Joe should be grateful and shut up about it. Time to move on and try to hook up with another CIS team while he still has a shot.

  160. "Perhaps Giles was being kind" ???
    LOL if that's his idea of "kindness" then just shoot me already!
    "Most CIS coaches are snakes in one form or another"...
    WOW....that statement tells me plenty about you, pal.
    You are one bitter, mean SOB aren't ya?
    Cynical as all get out...and a guy with all the answers.
    You know what?
    I think have cards you ain't showin'.
    You seem to take a very personal interest in this case...almost too personal.

  161. I have already made my feelings pretty clear from my previous posts on here. I would love to have the move rescinded and have Coach Raso back, but I'm afraid that is unlikely, so let me just say that of all the candidates mentioned as possible replacements, I would like Chris Oliver. If it is true that he will interview for the job, I would suspect he has obtained permission to do so, from the Windsor authorities.

    I wonder if that would be enough to keep Victor enrolled at Mac, and hang onto the prized recruits who had committed to play at Mac starting in the fall.

  162. I do not have any personal interest, only what I have observed and been told first hand by quite a few players, their parents, and some high school and club coaches. Sometimes the blinders need to come off and people need to detach their emotions from a situation. For your positive experience with Raso, there are quite a few that, while not in your inner circle, have the opposite view. It's a business decision based on what a person has done lately on the job.
    As stated, Giles had no time to develop animosity to Raso so I believe it was based on his observations over the year and of course the people that brought him in to clean house.
    I suppose you would have been happier if this came with a box of chocolates and a bouquet of flowers? The fact that it was done with anything but leads me to suspect what the true motives behind this firing were.

  163. I agree with John re: coach Raso and coach Oliver. Chris Oliver would be a good fit but does he want the job and his he available?
    I do know that the recruits and the team have been contacted and assured that the ship will be righted (???).
    As for Giles, there was an opening, he applied and got the job. He was not brought in to clean house. He's an accountant by training and the hope is that he will bring his financial skills to bear.

  164. What Joe has done lately is a 14-8 league record, 24-9 overall in 2009-2010.
    BTW, Craig Norman won a CIS COY with a 14-8 record five years ago.
    14-8 at McMaster, apparently, gets you fired.
    He's had 20+ win seasons in all but one of his years at MAC.
    By my estimation that over 350 wins at the very least.
    It is pretty hard to justify firing a coach with a record such as his, either
    recently or in its totality.
    Something else must have been the real reason.

  165. Does anyone know who is interviewing for the job?
    I have not heard any names of any of the assistants mentioned. . Do any of them have the background to land the job or are any of them interested? Are there any current coaches in Hamilton who could handle the job? I would think they would first look at someone familiar with the program and the current players.

  166. The best fit for Raso would be Guelph. It is close enough that he won't have to move and they play his style of hard nosed ball and the program is stuck in the mud. As for the assistants Gunter and Joseph are good rep coaches but are probably not ready for this position. Bynum has been there a long time as an assistant so he maybe a possibility but not sure if he has ever been a head coach as moving that 12 inches over to the next seat is a big jump. I don"t know the other two assistants the young african american and the guy with the shaved head.

  167. Giles had his reasons. Get over it.

  168. There are plenty of reasons NOT MADE PUBLIC, for Raso's release. The admin looked the other way for many years to the point where Raso felt he was untouchable.

    Mac has had one of the best programs but not nearly one of the best leaders. Time for a change.

  169. Raso to Guelph? Hadn't heard O'Rourke was leaving. Hope not. My son was coached by both and we'll take O'Rourke, thank you.That's a problem with you raso fans. It's called arrogance.

  170. Interesting string of comments.....from all but how about this logic of thinking.

    A fantastic lady quits as AD for her own reasons and after years of being recruited to UWO. She says there are reasons of "going home" but there were and still are plenty of reasons to stay in Hamilton. McMaster goes through a thorough search with representatives of all levelos to hire a new and qualified AD (as they determined) with skill sets deemed needed to continue the growth and professionalism of the department.

    The new AD comes in and realizes that over time some areas are needed to be fixed or amended to bring the administration and systems up to snuff to reflect McMasters commitment to excellence both on and off the court. I know enough to realize that alot has changed in the OUA in terms of policies, procedures and standards over 18 years and the old guard may not have agreed with it or truthfully played by the rules. Ask yourselves if you really believe that all of the players that have left OUA teams left because they were disgruntled or really couldn't keep the grades. I am not saying that Joe broke any rules but what if the system has "gaps" that allow for creative application and entrance requirements for students and what if some of the old guard used those to recruit talent....wouldn't that make for a difficult situation for a new AD that wants to ensure he (as a former accountant) is playing by the rules....Just a thought.

    And wouldn't it be important to the new AD that he clean house before a new president starts and the Athletic friendly President departs. It is no secret that the porist doesn't like ahtletics and rumour has it that she had a hand in identifying the new president - just a hunch but wouldn't you want to remove any potential problems prior to a new boss coming in to the University.....

    Ask yourselves if any OUA coach can honestly admit thay they haven't looked for the grey in their programs to get student recruits to apply and be accepted to a school. Some schools use feeder colleges, have lower entrance averages and less success in student marks for athletes.

    Is there a chance that both Jeff Giles and Joe did what they saw best for thier respective roles and that the truth could kill a legend while offering only a justification for a departure.....

    Joe will be fine - he'll make decisions that will make he and his family happy. Jeff will have an opportunity to set a tone amongst his remaining team while setting policies that are also the bar in OUA. Enjoy the gossip session but if you know the workings of successful programs you may want to look a little closer at the other programs and their relative success in recruiting one/two year players. There might be a change coming for a few more high profile long time coaches that have been working in the grey....

  171. Change is the trend in NCAA coaching circles these days: Announced recently
    Al Skinner fired from B.C. after 13 years, 7 of last 9 yrs in tournament.
    Ernie Kent, Oregon, fired after 13 years.
    Bobby Lutz, Charlotte 49rs fired after 12 years. And lets not forget Bobby Knight, Indiana, fired after 29 years.

  172. That's the problem with wanting to be taken seriously, as is done in the NCAA. You have to take all of it, not just parts that suit you. If you want to see the CIS move up in prestige and popularity then more changes will be coming. Isn't that what everyone is screaming about all the time. Marketing and influx of finances only go so far so changing what doesn't work anymore must be done. Moves such as these are not done lightly, but to fix whatever ails the program.

  173. Here`s my take. Jeff Giles has a history of trying a million new initiatives (in an effort to appear cutting edge and active) in the hopes that one or two will work. Throwing a lot of sh*t at a wall to see what sticks. This smacks of nothing less than remaking Mac athletics in his own image. Why have a coach who is a bigger name than the AD?

    You simply cannot argue with Joe Raso`s record. Absent some sort of inappropriate personal and professional conduct, and absent any sort of corrective efforts toward addressing some perceived deficiency (and we have no one saying anything on either front), Jeff Giles` decision is arrogant and wrong-headed. McMaster athletics will rue the day. Giles won`t. He`s too pigheaded.

  174. And if anyone has allegations of how Raso ran wild with the program while the department looked the other way, let's actually grow some balls and post those allegations here.

    I mean, it's not like 95 percent of you aren't already hiding behind an Anonymous tag like a bunch of pussies. How would it hurt to make allegations without putting your name to them?

  175. 80% of the Anti-Raso comments are coming from a husband and wife combo in Hamilton who have had a vendetta against the coach for years. It's not enough that McMaster released him, but they have to make bogus insinuations about "transgressions" in the program. Pathetic with a capital P.

  176. I'm single and not a big fan of where the program has recently been and was headed. I am excited at the change. I think the biggest detractor to the supporters credibiity is this constant finger pointing.
    No one wants to put allegations of potential wrong doings on here because they are just that, allegations, not backed up by proof. Same as the statements that only one person or husband/wife is posting anti-Raso comments. I mean, really, get a grip.

  177. That's kind of the point isn't it? People can come on here and anonymously make stuff up about these alleged transgressions. What is more irresponsible, to make up allegations that someone can't defend or to support a person who has made a positive impact on hundreds of people over 18 years? Anyone who doubts that Raso has the support of many, many people just needs to subscribne to the Canadian University Basketball Discussion List. Anonymous posts are not allowed and the number of people from inside and outside Hamilton that have posted messages of support has been impressive. If these posters with supposed knowledge of bad behaviour had any real insight they would present what they know and have the courage to put their name to it. It is cowardly to accuse someone from behind a screen name.